Rover 825SD 800 Coupe 825i SD1 and Land Rover Web Site

BRUCE MOXON'S, experiences with his 1994 Rover 825SD.

The 825 diesels are generally not prone to many problems but Bruce has tackled and solved most things that are likely to go wrong! Did you break a mirror recently Bruce? Read on...

My car is a 1994 825 SD Diesel, which brings me round to the lack of info available on these VM 2.5 Turbo diesels. I haven't been able to track down any, other than Haynes Frontera manual (poor), they also fit these engines to the 2.5 Cherokee, 2.5 Ford Scorpio (no manual for these either) The G/box on the 825SD is a Chrysler unit, in fact it is almost a Kit car!   

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Low water light coming on, Cylinder head leaks

Drive shaft vibration

Power steering rack fails. lost ATF

A warning about working on the steering

Oil burning, inlet tract or turbo?

Low water light coming on.

There appeared to be water coming from the rear head/block face. After removing the heads (3 days to fabricate special tools) there where no signs of any blown head gaskets (4 separate heads), so I removed the valves and made up some fittings to pressurize the water jackets with compressed air (after clamping rubber patches over the mating face water ports). Hey presto, the core plugs were like sieves. After replacing the core plugs, I decided to toss the heads in a bucket of water and perform the pressure test again aha, more bubbles emitting from head no 3, this time from a pin hole within the inlet valve throat in the dividing waterway, There is a small core plug at the manifold side of the head through which the waterway was presumably bored during manufacture. After having removed this plug I shone a torch into the valve throat and peered into the waterway, where I could see the pinhole clearly. The solution was to bore the waterway slightly bigger and press in a short length of stainless steel tubing after having coated it with Loctite, and re-build the top end, result----Perfect (it strikes me that some of these castings are a bit too thin in the valve throat area).

Next: - the drive shafts vibrated like hell whilst accelerating hard.

Turned out to be the inner CV joints. They are like a tripod at the end of the inner assembly, each (horn) of the tripod having a needle roller bearing mounted on it or supposedly so only my offside one was minus a bearing, which caused the whole shaft to run eccentric with the transmission of torque, and vibrate. A quick trip to my local bearing stockists yielded some loose rollers with which I re-built the joint and the problem was cured. During the course of inquiring with several propshaft specialists re service- exchange items (which isn't available for the diesel), I was enlightened about the common problem with 800s of the inboard splines breaking off and falling into the diff when the driveshafts are jarred out, Apparently a lot of these fast fit type of establishments get around this potential problem by separating the c/v joint and leaving the inner splines engaged in the diff to facilitate clutch /g-box removal. Methinks mine must have been the victim of this rough practice, but it turns out that the diesel shafts don't have the usual snap-ring arrangement and are free to be withdrawn easily.

Next: - the power steering rack seals failed and I was loosing loads of ATF.

Enter the local breakers, and one s/hand Mk 1 rack later (same fitting but looks slightly different in the valve area) and that problem was cured although a complete bastard to fit and remove. I had always been curious as to how these racks worked so dismantled the old one to find out, and basically, the column shaft does not connect to the pinion directly as in manual steering, but connects to a valve spool via a coupling (with a small amount of backlash built in to the Column-pinion, but a direct transmission running through the centre of the pinion into which is built a small hydraulic direction control valve), the idea being that when the column is turned, for the first 1 deg the pinion does not move but the valve is opened, which allows pressurized hydraulic fluid to force the piston and rack in the desired direction i.e. - the rack actually pulls the pinion around as opposed to a manual set-up which is vice-versa. Now as long as the column is continually turned the valve stays open, but as soon as the column is held steady, the movement of the rack continues for that one deg which in turn closes off the hydraulic spool valve. (The steering stays where it is until a further input is generated via the steering wheel). To put it another way, the pinion is playing catch-up with the valve spool (by the amount of controlled backlash between the pinion and the valve spool).

Next: - Two months later I jumped into the car and fired it up, at the merest touch of the steering wheel, it continued to rotate to full lock. My immediate thoughts where "I wonder if the u.j. on the column has come loose and disconnected". I jumped out of the car and looked at the front wheels as I gave the steering wheel a quick nudge the wheels moved full lock, (the power steering had gone super powerful). I drove the car to work and back and decided that it was far too dangerous to use further without rectification. I rang a few rack specialists who all offered no advice but wanted to liberate large amounts of my wallets contents. With having examined the previous rack I decided that the only way that my current problem could occur is via the controlled amount of backlash increasing thereby opening the spool valve further and causing a faster flow of hydraulic fluid. The backlash is determined by a hardened and ground steel washer that has an opening in it i.e. an incomplete circle, one half of the coupling is dogged onto this washer via a small rollpin that engages in the slot and the other half is similar but engages from the underside. After going through the tedious job of removing the rack again, I stripped the pinion coupling down and found that the afore mentioned washer had actually broken in two halves, thereby increasing backlash, it appears that the washer had been over - hard and been made brittle, although the only possible cause that I can think of  for its breakage is the fact that any movement and torque through the steering wheel, has to be transmitted via this washer. Now I'm 6ft 8 and often used the steering wheel to lever myself in and out of the car when the engine is, not running ... Fortunately I had kept the parts from the old rack and was able to substitute the broken washer with the old one and.....Fixed El Cheepo!

When doing anything with the steering wheel/ rack, and the column u.j. has to be removed, pay attention to the number of column turns in relation to the steering rack pinion shaft, or you may fall down the same hole as I did...That rotary coupler thingy that is fitted behind the steering wheel (connects horn and airbag electric's) is internally not unlike a half wound clock spring, where the "spring" is in fact a paper thin ribbon wire, If the column is permitted to rotate freely once it has been released from the u.j. , for example in a clock-wise direction, the ribbon may become over-wound and if the u.j. is then re-fitted with the road wheels straight ahead, the first time that you turn full lock right the ribbon cable snaps, and no horn or airbag ... 

Next: - whilst travelling down the motorway, I noticed that horrible pungent smell of burning oil in the cabin, when I got home I looked under the bonnet and there was oil everywhere particularly around the turbo, I thought " shit that looks expensive".

The next day I power washed the whole engine off and ran it for half an hour, oil appeared to be coming from the rocker box region, so I replaced the rocker box gasket and all appeared to be well for a couple of thousand miles and then more of the same. I again replaced the rocker box gasket and all appeared to be well for the next couple of months and THEN after a quick thrash ...same again, so I cleaned it off again and closely observed the engine whilst it ran.

I thought I saw a small air bubble emit from no. 4 inlet to head gasket so I revved it some more and saw more oily air bubbles come from the same joint. I concluded that the inlet gasket must be leaking but more importantly, what was oil doing in the inlet tract ???  It could come only from two sources 1 the turbo was dumping oil into the intercooler and staying there until I booted it thereby blowing it into the engine or 2 the engine was breathing heavily and, as the breather discharge tube was routed into the air filter housing, it may have accumulated in one of the hose bends until I again booted it and it was forced into the inlet tract ...I decided that the best course of action was to isolate the breather system and clean out the whole induction tract and if the oil re-appeared it must be the turbo seals. I routed the breather tube off down the chassis. This done and a couple of days later I inspected the insides of the pluming and it was full of oil, leading me to the conclusion that the source was indeed the turbo seals.

I spent the next few eves trolling the net for info on turbos without much joy, but meanwhile the car started emitting copious amounts of blue smoke from the exhaust (particularly when setting off from the lights, in fact people where turning on their lights thinking it had come dark). In fear of being nicked by P.C. Keen, I decided to take the car off the road until I could solve the problem.

I scrolled through the motoring press for turbo specialists and rang loads. I was quoted prices of between £300 (if it wasn't too bad) and £800 (if it needed a new central bearing unit). Horrified at this prospect I continued trolling the net for alternatives. Eventually I came across an article entitled OIL IN TURBO by a firm call UK turbos (as I remember) who detailed turbos often being blamed for oiling the system, when it more often than not was caused by other factors but manifested itself by the turbo passing oil . The possible causes they suggested were:-

1 Where a blocked oil return- to- sump pipe thereby causing the oil level in the turbo to rise to the bearing level and overflow into the compressor (apparently the seals main function isn't to stop oil from leaking out, but more to stop compressed inlet/exhaust gasses from getting in , oil retention is a very secondary function).

2 Excessive crankcase blow-by (more than 1p.s.I ), which would fight against the gravity required to enable oil to return to the sump from the turbo, resulting in oil spillover in the turbo as in (1)

(3) A partially blocked air filter or restriction in the inlet tract, which would lead to the turbo compressor creating a great depression on its inlet side. This depression (vacuum) would in turn suck oil out of the turbo and send it on it's way to the intercooler.

So as not to be off the road, I fabricated a manifold to replace the turbo with, and continued running the car turbo less (normally aspirated) At first I thought the exhaust down pipe had blown, because there was a right racket coming from that region, in fact one or two people (pedestrians) asked if my exhaust had gone?

I thoroughly cleaned the breather and inlet system again, but this time, I, decided to inspect the intake side of the air filter also. (Which involved removal of the battery to gain access) as I pulled the battery clear I noticed one of those "documents enclosed" plastic bag thingys that had once been stuck to the battery, and was still hanging on by a thread, had been sucked into the inlet trumpet, (perhaps causing a restriction?). Also the oil breather hose that I had piped toward the rear of the car had formed a "u", in it, which had filled with oil, effectively preventing the engine from breathing, in retrospect, I realize that had also lost POSITIVE CRANKCASE VENTING as any blow by is normally SUCKED into the inlet tract. I removed and re-sealed the inlet manifold to the heads and re-fitted the turbo as per original, I also noted that where the breather hose enters the air filter housing, a steel tube takes the vented gasses into the centre of the air tract, where the steel tube is cut off at 45deg, thereby forming a venturi (increasing the "suck" on the tube). After having measured the turbo inlet diameter, I decided that I could reduce the diameter of the inlet tract at the point where the breather entered and not cause any restriction to the system (this I hoped would speed up the gas flow at that point, thereby causing an even greater depression on the breather tube). I found a small plastic funnel, which once trimmed, clicked into place like a factory -fitted item.

Much to the relief of my wallet everything has been perfect ever since. No smoke, No oil visible, in fact oil leaks that I reckoned where coming from various parts of the engine mysteriously disappeared (don't arf blow about dunnit). All that work for a poxy plastic bag huh?

Also it failed the M.O.T. and I had to fit new discs and pads all way round, and new front wheel bearings (tight buggers aren't they).

The sump developed a crack and dumped a lot of oil onto my driveway, which I removed and brazed up. Most of the instrument illuminating bulbs had blown which required me to solder new ones in place. Both the back and middle exhaust boxes leaked and I fabricated new skins for them. 

If you haven't yet fallen asleep, I hope this article proves useful to someone.

BRUCE MOXON

 

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