800 FAQs

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Handbook

For Mk II cars many recurring questions (setting electric windows, locking/alarms etc) can be answered by referring to the Handbook and ICE Guide for all types of Mk II 800 models. It can be found here:
Handbook index page
In the form of alphabetical index pages and .jpg scans. This is actually from 1994, but many topics relate to Mk II models made before and after this date.
VIN "Changeover" points, helpful when looking for second-hand spares View or download Zip file Excel 97 format

Useful Links For UK residents

http://www.dvla.gov.uk/welcome.htm DVLA Vehicle Taxation, Driving Licences etc
The Highway Code Online
Association of British Drivers Various matters affecting motorists, from speed cameras to environmental topics
http://www.motuk.co.uk/manual/contents.htm Site with the MOT testers Manual

Also see Repair Pages mainly about the diesel 800 at the moment but many jobs are also applicable to all 800 models.

Postings to the list should be made to Rover800@yahoogroups.com . Messages are not in general moderated, but we would ask that you consider the wide audience before making any postings. Posting on any Rover 800 related topics are acceptable, and generally most motoring things will be tolerated. We also ask that you remain civil in list postings and do not enter into personal debates or attacks on this list.

RoverDieselCars@yahoogroups.com - Actually for all Rover diesel engine driven products, but most members have the 825 turbo diesel.
Rover-800-V6@yahoogroups.com which deals with Honda engine 800s in particular (as well as other 800 models in general).

None of this info is copyright, copy and spread around at your will.
The contributors take no responsibility for the accuracy or misuse of the information within
this FAQ, use it at your own risk.

Many thanks to all the contributors to this FAQ, many are credited along with sections they added. Also Mach has added many comments in all the sections, especially the bit about the 4lb hammer ..

A degree of tappet rattle when cold can be expected on all of the petrol engines used in the 800 series. Good quality oil is required in all types of engine, no £2.99 superstore cooking fat.

If your car is overheating then check for a blocked radiator or faulty fans. On mk2 models the fan relay pack sits underneath the O/S headlight (for RHD cars) and is prone to getting corroded badly.

Never use any type of leak sealer in the Honda based V6 engines; these will block the heater and the radiator.

Using the correct oil and changing it frequently is the best way to avoid excess tappet rattle. On all petrol models this means using a good quality 10w40 oil and changing oil and filter at 6000 miles.

The cambelt on 2 litre engines should be changed at 60k miles, and on the Honda V6 should be changed around 45k miles - though the original interval was 90k miles. Neither are particularly difficult jobs to do yourself, as long as you are careful and thorough.

The battery works, the dash lights up suggesting no problems there. State of ECU is irrelevant (someone confirm) Try disconnecting the feed to the starter solenoid (in case it is shorted to earth), turning key to position II then running length of wire from battery positive to starter solenoid terminal (the large spade, not the ring/stud!).

Having checked the fusible link and assuming they are not to blame I suggest you take out the starter solenoid relay and check what's happening with a multimeter. On the bottom or side of the relay its wiring diagram will be printed, a spiralled wire for the coil and two circles with an angled line representing the switched contacts.

Using a multimeter makes this job easier so if you haven't one see if you can borrow one. In its absence a 12v battery and light bulb can be used. (12 battery and bulb wired in series with the circuit broken somewhere and two wires taken off it = resistance checker - bulb lights = low ohms, bulb off = lots of ohms. Bulb with two wires = voltmeter - connect one end to battery negative, probe with other end, bulb on = 12v, off = 0v)

To check the relay itself: Measure the resistance across the switched contacts - this should be 'infinite'. Apply 12v across the two coil terminals (not polarity sensitive). The relay should 'click.' If not it is at fault. Assuming it clicks measure the resistance across the switched contacts, this should now be 'zero' ohms. The resistance between any coil contact and any switched contact should be infinite no matter whether the relay is powered (energised) or not.

If the relay is not at fault you then have to move on to the wiring of the car itself. Make sure before you do anything you set your multimeter to a range suitable for measuring 13.8v and not to amps or resistance. On amps your multimeter turns into a wire (i.e. very low resistance) and can short out things or turn them on. Resistance cannot be measured on a live circuit. If you probe the wrong things when on the ohms setting some delicate electronics can be damaged.

With the battery still in place connect the black lead of the multimeter to the negative terminal of the battery. Disconnect the coil, turn off the radio. Get somebody to hold the ignition switch in the third or 'start' position. One of the relay coil contacts should read 0v, the other 12v. One of the switched contacts should read 0v, the other 12v.

***If both of the relay coil contacts read 0v the positive signal wire from the ignition has a problem.

***If both switched contacts read 0v then the positive supply to the relay contacts (and so the solenoid) has a problem.

***If both of the relay coil contacts read 12v (or the difference between them is less than 10v, 0v may not actually be 0v, 12v may not quite be 12...) then there is a problem with the earth to the relay coil.

***If both switched contacts read 12v then there is a problem with the wire from the relay to the starter solenoid.

The looms on modern cars appear horrendous and I was not brave or patient enough to even attempt to follow them, let alone alter/repair them. Before trying to fix and faults REMOVE THE BATTERY (safety warning: remove earth/negative terminal first; replace last. MEMS engine owners should use a memory backup unit).
This saves on misplaced tools resulting in increased laundry bills. Unscrew the fusebox and unclip the backing. Pull out the relay contact that was damaged (you may find mangling the end of it with an electrical screwdriver first helps), cut it off and insulate the wire *REALLY* well.

***If your problem is the first one you are unlucky, this is hardest to fix. You will have to run a new wire from the ignition 'position three' feed to the relay. ---Use an uninsulated spade connector on the relay end of the wire pushed through the hole left by the original fusebox connector. If you connect this to the relevant relay contact first then you should be able to push the relay home, feeding the excess wire back into the fusebox while clipping the relay into its three remaining original contacts. Put a piece of paper into the fusebox saying what you did so that you remember not to pull out the starting relay or if you do that you'll have to fish out the connector with a pair of long-nosed pliers before replacing it. When finished reassemble the fusebox and route the cable tidily, using grommets and cable ties. I don't know where to take a position three ignition feed from so if this is the problem you'll have to ask somebody else. The positive ignition contact is the one furthest towards the front of the car.

***If your problem is the second one then you'll have to run a new positive feed to the relay switched contact. DO NOT run this direct from the battery terminal but instead find a fused positive feed (preferably the original) that is live when the ignition is in position II and stays live when in position III. Again, I've not repaired this so you'll have to ask somebody else where they think you should take this feed from. Follow from --- for the first problem for how to replace the contact. The two relay contacts on the furthest left and furthest right are the switched contacts but I don't know which is the feed and which is the starter solenoid, perhaps someone can help?

***If your problem is the third you're in luck - so was mine. In this case make up a two foot length of light gauge wire with a ring on one end and an uninsulated spade on the other. Connect the ring to the earth just behind the left-hand headlight (using copper-slip for corrosion resistance and a
good electrical connection) then run the wire into the fusebox and push the spade through the hole left by the relay coil earth (the one furthest towards the back of the car). follow from the --- for how to put the relay back.

***If your problem is the fourth then it is not too difficult. Cut the old spade connector off the lead to the starter solenoid (leaving a couple of inches on the spade) and solder it to a three foot length of heavy gauge (35A or so) wire, insulating the join. Insulate and tie away the old lead.
Put an uninsulated spade on the end and feed it into the relevant relay contact as from the ---.

I'm no expert by any means and only know about any of this because this is what I did to our car. (1991, J-Plate, 820Si, T-Series, MkII/New Grille). If you have the Haynes manual for your car ignore the wiring diagrams as (in my experience) these do not appear to bear any resemblance to what you'll find.

NB. when removing the starter motor one of the bolts on the 820 engine has a nut on the back and sensor above it. Be careful of the nut will turn and rip the sensor wiring to bits.

Sticking valves - many of the early 2 litre engines suffered from sticking valves, later engines had modified cylinder heads to eliminate this problem.

Oil leak from front corner of head gasket. Common problem, normal in fact ! there is a modified re-enforced gasket made by Klinger which is rumoured to rectify this permanently. No confirmed use of it so far though. Member's fix that seems to cure the problem is to fit a 3/4" (19mm) piece of standard 8mm (6mm bore) copper heating pipe into the block with a little sticking up into the head see: 2 litre head seal

The Honda V6 engines are quite prone to noisy tappets, especially if it's not had regular oil changes for the whole of its life. There are plenty of alleged cures, none of which seem to work in all cases. These range from oil additives, replacing O rings in the oil gallery inside the sump, flushing the oil with each change and adjusting the exhaust tappet clearances.

Never tow a KV6 car fitted with an auto box even for the shortest distance, the box will often later on develop a leak which requires its removal to repair. If it has to be towed it must have the front wheels lifted from the ground.

According to many accounts there was a high failure rate with early engines. Problems with overheating and oil mixing with coolant. Caused by cylinder head gaskets failing and / or cylinder liners moving in block.

A compression test will reveal a failed head gasket, many people have reported the gasket on number 6 cylinder as being the culprit.

This can be fixed, where the liners were within acceptable limits, with new type cylinder head gaskets. In all instances the later type cylinder head gasket should be fitted
providing liner height dimensions are within tolerance. This 'Multi Layer Steel' (MLS) gasket replaces the previous 'elastomeric' gasket and has been fitted to a few
later engines. This improved gasket can be fitted to earlier engines providing liner height conditions allow.

Allegedly, when these vehicles were in warranty period many were simply fitted with new replacement engines. Later 800s 97-98 on do not seem to suffer as much as it would appear these were fitted with engines manufactured with modified components which solved the problem. Unfortunately there seems to be no way to determine how old the engine is that is fitted to even late model 800s or if it incorporates the modified parts. The 2.5 litre KV6 has proved to be a reliable engine in the Rover 75/MG derivatives and the Land Rover Freelander (not confusing it with the K series 4 cylinder 1.8 engine which seems to have problems).

Coolant loss. Apart from the dreaded head gasket failure problems there can be a small but steady loss of coolant (something like approximately 1 to 2 litres every 200 miles or so.) There is no mixing of the oil and coolant and no obvious leaks anywhere. The real cause of this is not definitely known but if enough coolant is lost major overheating troubles will ensue. Some success has been reported in using a product called K-Seal from: http://www.kalimex.co.uk/

As an aside, I think any case of “mysterious loss of coolant” on a KV6 might well be caused by the failure of a very poor design in the bleed pipe that runs under the engine acoustic cover. This is the small black pipe that connects to the expansion tank and has a very cheap looking tee piece connecting it to two rubber hoses that fails as a result of over-crimping of two pipe clamps. This has had to be replaced on both my KV6s and I’ve seen at least one other report on one of the lists

Failure of the flexible pipes that carry the engine oil to the cooler behind the front bumper is known on some vehicles. Inspect and replace if in doubt. If they fail the engine will seize up.

Some engines (early types) with manual adjustable tappets had problems with rocker pillar studs pulling the thread out of the heads. Helicoil inserts can fix this.

There have been problems with head gaskets failing; there are four separate cylinder heads and gaskets. Overheating on these engines is the usual cause so it is important that the cooling system is properly maintained.

Core plugs within the heads can corrode causing mysterious coolant leaks. Pay attention to the cooling system, use the correct anti-freeze and a long trouble free life for the engine will be the usual result.

Difficult starting especially in cold weather is often caused by the failure of one or more heater plugs.

The cable from the control unit is connected to number 4 heater plug. From there the plugs are coupled together by links (or bus bars) that go from terminal to terminal. They are connected in parallel, which means all the plugs receive the same nominal voltage. To test, the plugs they can be left in the engine but need to be disconnected from the electrical cable from the control unit and the links. Some people simply use a "hot wire " from the battery positive terminal and dab it on the plug terminal, if you see a little spark on contact it means the plug is working, if not it isn't.

Be it on your own head if you do this. You do run the risk of causing a short circuit if the wire accidentally touches the engine or bodywork. A LOT of current will flow through the wire in these circumstances and personal injury or a fire is a very likely result.

If you have no test gear it is possible to use a test lamp, which can be a reliable means of testing the plugs if used correctly. It is much safer than the "hotwire" method as the bulb will limit the current flow and prevent short circuits. Best of all is to buy a multimeter and use that.

After they have been disconnected use the multimeter or test lamp to check each one. The multimeter will show zero or a very low reading on the ohms scale or on the test lamp bulb will light if the plug is OK.

If it is a high ohms or open circuit reading on the multimeter or if it the test lamp bulb does not light, then the plug needs replacing.

Mk2 models have one-touch windows, which sometimes lose their calibration and require resetting to work properly. A beeping sound will be heard when the windows are operated in this case. Resetting instructions

By Mike Haysom -
'The later cars with the CCU and its interfaces receive a supply from two sources, protected by two fuses. Guess what happens if F1 (10A, top left on the under-dash fuse board) is blown ? You got it I'm sure, the windows will go down but not up again !! Another symptom is that the Rover fitted CD player doesn't work either, though I only noticed this after the event. My mind was focused on the large, very black looking clouds heading my way.'

Dry Joints, causing window faults....... thanks to Dennis Szubert his instructions were used as the basis for this.

Windows are controlled by their own ecu which is under the passenger seat - check the connections here first. This could also be a dry solder joint in the passenger compartment fuse box. (above the pedals). This is the usual suspect.

If you have airbags remove the key from the ignition and wait about 20 minutes first, then disconnect the battery, (don't forget the radio code)

1. Remove all the connectors from the fuse board, a felt tip pen is handy for marking where things go.
2. Undo two 10mm bolts and remove board.
3. Check back of board for dry-joints, especially the large connectors on the side nearest the door-pillar. Resolder or get some to do it for you if you can't solder. Then go over all the joints with a soldering iron.
4. Refitting is the reverse of removal - watch-out you don't drop 10mm bolt on door-pillar side as it disappears down behind the lining.

Replace the board and hopefully that should solve the problem. A photo guide to this and door switch pack problems is at:
http://www.sound-research.co.uk/fusebox/fuse1.htm and
http://www.sound-research.co.uk/ew.htm

3.3 Trip Computers

Many mk1 models had trip computers fitted, early models with a large (2 DIN stereo socket size) computer, later ones (1990/1) with a slimline unit the side of a standard stereo. These have a variety of features

3.4 ICE equipment

3.5 Instruments

3.6 Tachometer (Rev counter)

3.6.1 Tachometer Diesel 825

The rev counter on my car started giving some funny readings and then failed completely.

I had often wondered how this works on a diesel, the petrol models gets the information from a connection on the coil, but on diesels we have no coils! Out came the tool box and the workshop manual and after taking a look at the drawing I found that the rev counter gets its speed information from the alternator.

There is a thin cable attached to terminal "W" next to the plug that connects the main thick (brown) wires to the alternator and is part of the same branch that comes out of the wiring harness. This is white in colour although it is in black sheathing. It was also a bit on the short side and had broken off as a result of vibration. I extended the wire a couple of inches and crimped a new eyelet connector on the end.

Result, after connecting it up, one working rev counter!

Engine. All except early versions of the 820 have non-volatile ecu memory no action is required to reset after the battery is reconnected.

Windows and sunroof:
Operation of the electric windows or sunroof will be
accompanied by a repetitive warning ’bleep’ and
neither the ’one touch up’ or ’back-off’ functions will
operate.
To restore full operation, calibrate the windows and
sunroof as described opposite.
Lazy locking:
Attempts to operate the lazy locking function will
result in failure and be accompanied by a repetitive
warning ’bleep’.
To restore lazy locking, calibrate the windows and
sunroof as described opposite.

Calibration
Following disconnection and reconnection of the
battery, the electric window and sunroof motors must
be calibrated as follows:
1) Using the controls on the driver’s door panel, fully
open and then shut each electric window in one
continuous movement - making sure that at the end
of each movement (downward and upward), the
appropriate switch is held in the ’on’ position until
the warning bleeps stop sounding.
2) Fully open and then shut the sunroof, ensuring
that the switch is held in the ’on’ position at the end
of each opening or closing sequence until the
warning bleeps stop sounding.
The window and sunroof ’back-off’ and ’one-touch’
functions and lazy locking facility will now be
operational.
Note: Once pressed, each switch must be held until
the warning bleeps stop sounding, or the calibration
sequence will not be complete and must be started
afresh.

Another tip if you are going to be constantly disconnecting the battery and putting it back on to test things is to disable the radio code.

This is how:
1 Depress the up tuning button while you switch on the radio and keep the button depressed until the display shows either '-c-', 'rover c' or 'code'

2 Enter the security code. When deactivated a two tone bleep will sound. You can now dis/reconnect the battery as many times as you want and the
radio will still work.

Don't forget to reactivate the code when you have finished the work if you think it is important. I don't think there is any point at all. The bad boys in the world have no trouble in getting them decoded if they pinch it.

The full instructions in the form of scans of the handbook and ICE guide are at:
http://uk.geocities.com/liamegan2000/index.html it tells you here how to reset the one touch windows if you don't already know.

3.9 A number of owners have reported that the SRS system (airbag) needs resetting after the battery has been disconnected. This can only be done at a dealership.

3.10 ...Below is my updated FAQ on cooling fans - anyone spot any rubbish in here please tell me and I'll fix it for next version.....Andy Nowson

Rover 800 Cooling Fans FAQ V4 MKIa,b   v   MKIc v pre'96 MKII   v post'96 MKII
A) MKI and MKII up to 1996 change uses Fan Switches (temp sensitive) in rad to trigger fans' speeds, for Honda V6 (and 2.0 ?) whereas MKII post '96 change only uses single Coolant Temp Sensor (CTS) in Engine for Rover KV6 /2.0/ 2.0 turbo engine- triggering fans & gauge via the MEMS ECU;   - but Diesel still uses rad switches.

B) MKI has 'Dual pressure ' switch in air con circuit, MKII has 'trinary' switch in a/c circuit (including early MKII).

C) MKI and early MKIIs has fan relay pack containing two c/over relays, main fan relay and a/con clutch relay all in one package mounted down low in front RH wing behind headlight -so salty water gets in....
Post 96 MKIIs have this same package, but mounted high up above RH headlight.

D) MKII pre & post '96 820 T-series (NASP *& Turbo) uses MEMS 1.9
    MKII KV6 2.5 uses MEMS2J
    MKII 2.5 Diesel uses EDC (Electronic Diesel Control) - sourced with the engine.

CARS PRE 1996 CHANGEOVER POINT

For MKI and early MKII - with rad switches :- (and post'96 MKII Diesel)
=========================================================
(Air con models have twin rad switches and fans)
(Non Air con have one switch and one fan.)

When the coolant temp rises so far (98deg cent), Radiator Switch1 should cut in, driving both fans at slow speed in series (c6v each). (Air con on (with compressor clutch engaged) does this also.).

When coolant temp in rad rises higher (114 deg cent) Switch 2 closes, and: via C/o relay1 earths Fan 1 , to run at full speed, AND via c/o relay2, supplies 12v to Fan 2 to run at full speed.

On MKI 2.7 & early MKII the engine CTS is used to trigger a/c cut-out if the temp is still too high (122deg cent.) with both fans at full speed.

AND

On MKIc if the oil temp is still above 105deg C when the ignition is turned off, then 'hot restart' is activated and both fans run at full speed until temp drops to c98deg C , for up to 25-30 mins running.

===================================================

FAN (Rad Mounted) SWITCHES - MKI & MKII pre '96 - Coming on WHEN?
===========================================================
If both fans work at slow speed, then either the air con or Fan Switch 1 is triggering them on.

So, either way, it doesn't prove which, so you need to isolate the trigger.

If pressing the 'ECON' switch on the Climate Control switch pack kills the fans, then it was the a/c triggering them, (but that only proves that the a/c trigger side is working at low speed.)

Shorting the Fan Switch 1 U wire (relay side) to earth should bring both fans on at slow speed (make sure a/c is turned off).
If that worked, then shorting across the contacts of Fan Switch 1 should do the same - both fans at slow.

If it doesn't, then there is a bad earth on Fan Switch 1 - check/clean/replace /retest.

Shorting the Fan Switch 2 UY wire (relay side) to earth should bring both fans on at FULL speed (make sure a/c is turned off).
If that worked, then shorting across the contacts of Fan Switch 2 should do the same - both fans at FULL.
If it doesn't, then there is a bad earth on Fan Switch 2 - check/clean/replace /retest.

If the fans stay on with engine off, that is the oil temp overheat circuit kicking them in - if the oil temp is over 105deg cent. it runs both fans at slow, even with the engine off, for up to 30 mins.

The a/c not triggering the fans may be because the CTS has detected over 122deg cent. , so cuts air con clutch - BUT both fans should be running at
full at that temp already.

C/OVER RELAY - MKI & MKII pre '96 change
=====================================
So, if the Fan switch 1&2 earth tests above show no faults, and the fans still only run at low speed, then it is possible that the c/o relay 2 is not operating, as this is the one powered by Fan Switch 2 closing at 114deg cent., and should switch the fans from slow to full speed.

MAIN FANS RELAY - MKI & MKII pre '96 change
======================================
If the fans never go OFF or never go ON then:

Stuck on SLOW speed - either the a/c is ON, main fan relay that feeds the fans is sticking on when a/c off, or Rad Switch 1 that triggers at 98deg C is stuck on/ shorted out. [pulling connectors off rad Switch 1 will tell if that is causing the trigger].

Stuck on HIGH speed - either the Fan Switch 2 (114 deg C)is triggered due to high coolant temp or is stuck closed [pulling connectors off rad Switch 2 will tell if that is causing the trigger]. - if not rad switch at fault, then Relay in Relay Pack behind RH headlight area is probably stuck ON.

Fans NEVER GO ON - main fan relay that feeds the fans is sticking off

DUAL PRESSURE SWITCH - MKI & MKII pre '96 change
=========================================

If this was malfunctioning it would either cut the a/c compressor clutch (and slow fans triggered by a/c)) - unless temp necessitated them to be on,
OR
would simulate high pressure in refrigerant and cause both fans to cut in at full speed.

=================================================
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
=================================================

CARS POST 1996 CHANGEOVER POINT

For post '96 MKII - with NO rad switches :- (EXCLUDES post'96 MKII Diesel)
=========================================================
(Air con models have twin fans) (Non Air con have one fan.)

THERMOSTAT - 2.5 Kv6
-------------------------------
- nominal rating - 82deg C
- starts to open - 78 deg C
- fully open at    - 86deg C

THERMOSTAT - 2.5 VM Diesel
---------------------------------
- nominal rating - 78deg C
- starts to open - 74 deg C
- fully open at   - 82deg C

All sensing is done by the Coolant Temperature Sensor (CTS), used by MEMS to control fuelling, spark, cooling fans and temp gauge.

When the coolant temp rises so far (KV6 = 106deg cent), (820=98deg C?) MEMS switches on both fans at slow speed in series (c6v each).
(Switches them off again when drops (KV6=100deg C) (Air con on (with compressor clutch engaged) switches them on also.).

When coolant temp in engine rises higher (KV6= 112 deg cent), (820=114deg C?) MEMS switches the change-over relays: via C/o relay1 earths Fan 1 , to run at full speed, AND via c/o relay2, supplies 12v to Fan 2 to run at full speed. (switches back to slow speed when temp drops (KV6=106deg C)

On post'96 MKII engine CTS is used to trigger a/c cut-out if the temp is still too high (KV6=118deg cent.) (820=122degC ?) with both fans already at full speed.
- cuts back in when CTS temp drops (KV6=115deg C) (820= c120deg C?)

AND

On post'96 MKIIs, if the oil/water temp is still high (KV6=CTS above 112deg C) (820=OTS above105deg C ) when the ignition is turned off, then 'hot restart' is activated and both fans run at full speed until temp drops (KV6= 8mins run) (820=to c98deg C , for up to 25-30 mins running). (same as MKIc - which is a hybrid of control systems to some degree and uses MEMS 1.9). (MKII post 96 820 uses MEMS 1.9 still).

===================================================

FANS MKII post '96 - Coming on WHEN?
===========================================================
If both fans work at slow speed, then either the air con or MEMS/CTS 106deg C(KV6) / 98deg (820) is triggering them on.

So, either way, it doesn't prove which, so you need to isolate the trigger.

If pressing the 'ECON' switch on the Climate Control switch pack kills the fans, then it was the a/c triggering them. (but that only proves that the a/c trigger side is working at low speed.)

As both fans are triggered by MEMS, there are no rad switches to test. The alternative is to play with the relay pack (RH front wing) and probe the connectors for permanent hot (+12v) present on NW (brown+white) and for trigger voltages from MEMS :

- Air con turned on or coolant above c106deg C(KV6) /98deg (820) - Fans should be on slow - so should be +12v at US (Blue +Slate grey) at Fan1 connector. - and c6v at SU (Slate+Blue) connector on Fan2; - if not then, either main fan relay is failing, or a/c refrigerant pressure does not require fans on yet - leaving a/con on should trigger this after a few minutes at most -OR either c/over relay is failing;

- Coolant above 106deg C (KV6) / 98deg C (820) AND a/con on; OR coolant temp above 112deg C (KV6) / 114degC (820) - THEN - both fans should be on at full speed, reading +12v at BOTH of the connectors above (SU and US); - if not, then either C/over relay1 or 2 is failing, or main fan relay failing.

Supplying +12v to either fan's connector (US or SU) from a +12v battery fly lead will confirm fans work OK. (BE VERY CAREFUL - and use a fused fly lead at 20 amps)
(AND Fan1 needs a separate earth as well)

If fans don't work in above test, then there could be a bad earth on Fan2 connector - (Brown lead on Fan2 connector) - check/clean/replace /retest.
Fan1 does not earth directly, but goes back to the twin relay pack and earths via Fan1 (on slow speed), and via the Brown wire on the relay pack connector (on high speed).

If the fans stay on with engine off, that is the (oil temp-820)(CTS KV6) overheat circuit kicking them in - if the water/oil temp is over 112deg C(KV6) / 105deg cent(820) it
runs both fans at slow, even with the engine off, for up to 8mins / 30 mins.

The a/c not triggering the fans may be because the CTS has detected over 118deg C (KV6) / 122deg C (820) , so cuts air con clutch - BUT both fans should be running at full at that temp already.

CHANGE/OVER RELAYS - MKII post '96 change
=====================================
So, if the Fans show no faults, and the fans still only run at low speed, then it is possible that the c/o relay 2 is not operating, as this is the one closing at 112/114deg cent, and should switch the fans from slow to full speed.

MAIN FANS RELAY? - MKII post '96 change
======================================
If the fans never go OFF or never go ON then:

- Stuck on SLOW speed - either the a/c is ON, main fan relay that feeds the fans is sticking on when a/c off, or CTS is AWOL and fooling MEMS;

- stuck on HIGH speed - either MEMS is triggering due to high coolant temp (112/114deg C) or c/over Relay 1 and 2 are stuck
closed (possible? - but unlikely), or CTS is AWOL again.....

- fans NEVER GO ON - main fan relay that feeds the fans is sticking off.

TRINARY PRESSURE SWITCH - MKII post '96 change
=========================================

If this was malfunctioning it would either cut the a/c compressor clutch (and slow fans triggered by a/c)) - unless temp necessitated them to be on, OR would simulate high pressure in refrigerant and cause both fans to cut in at full speed.

COOLANT TEMPERATURE SENSOR - MKII post'96
======================================
As MEMS uses this for everything (almost), any malfunction in the CTS will not only wreak havoc on fan operation, and of course in over cooling / overheating, but will most likely exhibit other symptoms.

As MEMS triggers fuel metering and ignition timing from this (along with other data) -this can be poor starting, fast idle when hot, lousy fuel consumption, poor/stuttering running at low revs etc.

CTS DEFAULT
When MEMS thinks the CTS is out of range it defaults to using 60deg C as the temp, and runs everything accordingly, with 'get-you-home' rough settings.
The gauge reads slightly lower than normal when warmed up - maybe 5/16ths instead of 3/8th of the way up....

(MEMS3 on rover 75 uses the oil temp sensor as a substitute when the CTS goes down on you)

3.12 Keyfobs Central Locking
There are 2 types of central locking systems used on the 800 since 1991. Cars built up to '96 have an infra-red system and those after a radio frequency system. The different types can be seen here (scroll down to nearly the bottom of the page).

When changing the batteries in the radio frequency type, press one of the buttons for five seconds after removing the old batteries. Then assemble the fob with the new batteries and standing next to the car press the lock button four time in quick succession. Sometimes the fob need its its hopping code to be re-sync to the ECU in the car. On the later 825 Rovers this is done by either pressing the unlock button 5 times in quick succession (in range obviously) or putting the key in the ignition with this fob on the key ring and turning it to position 2 for 5 seconds.

2 fuses to check, Fuse 11, is 10 amps in dashboard fuse box. Fuse number 8, is 30 amps in engine compartment fuse box (as 1994 Mk 2 car)

On non-AC cars the 3 position fan switch is known to fail often. It can quite simply be replaced by removing the dash fascia. On early AC cars (with the slider for the fan speed) the fan control interface is the weak link, causing a sort of 'phantom fan' where the speed will vary on its own. Replacement is often the best option, though people have reported success by re-soldering the PCBs. The fan speed interface is behind the radio mounted on the heater/blend unit and is about 25mm x 50mm x 50mm and black in colour.

Can also be the thermal cut-out on the top of the heater fan box.

The fan can also stick because the oil in the bearing dries out. To gain access look under the passenger side glove box, pull back carpet and felt. There is a round housing with pipes going into it, with ignition switch on and the fan switch on maximum speed try striking this a few times, often the motor will start.

If not turn off the ignition, remove the large diameter rubber pipe. It should be possible to get a hand in and see if it will turn.

These problems seem to be avoided if the fan is left on setting "I" instead of turning it off when a higher speed in not required.

You can get the system to tell you what the fault is
:-
With the ignition on, wait for the 'Err' display and beeping to stop (about 20 seconds). Press the 'Auto' button and then press the 'Off' button. The system
will go into diagnostic mode and light one or more of the buttons to indicate the fault -

FACE - in car temperature sensor
FACE/FEET - ambient temperature sensor
FEET - evaporator sensor
FEET/SCREEN - coolant temperature sensor
DEFROST - air temperature mode motor
REAR SCREEN HEATER - air distribution mode motor
ECON - sunlight sensor

The compressor clutch is fed from a red (R) wire from the relay unit behind/under the RH headlamp.

The compressor clutch relay in this unit is fed from fuse X in the engine bay fusebox on an NO wire (Brown and Orange ?)

The coil for the relay is fed from fuse 11 in the dash fusebox on a Green and Yellow wire (GY). This wire leaves the fuseboard green and somehow transmutes into GY along the way !

The earth path for the coil is through the engine EFI unit on a Black and Yellow wire (BY)

The engine EFI unit should receive an earth signal from the 'trinary' pressure switch on a Blue/red wire (UR) if the pressure is above the low point. This earth UR wire also starts the fans in low speed via a diode.
The other side of the 'trinary' pressure switch is connected to earth through the engine overheat control unit on a grey/blue wire (SU)

If the pressure is high enough the high pressure switch will close, giving an earth path to the Engine EFI unit on a Black/Pink wire (BP) via a diode. This will also give an earth path to the relays in the fan control unit on the Blue/Yellow (UY) wire to switch the fans to high speed.

If the pressure rises above 340 lbf/in^2 the 'trinary' pressure switch will open, cutting the engine EFI unit earth path on the Blue/Red (UR) wire and the EFI unit will cut the earth path to the relay in the relay pack.

>From the symptoms described I believe that your engine overheat control unit or sensor is faulty. You should not have 12V on the Grey/blue wire (SU) at the combined pressure switch. When the engine is running at a normal temperature this should be an earth. I would definitely recommend changing the sensor or inserting a resistor. I don't know the value, all the book says is that if the resistance of the sensor is low (temp high) then the compressor clutch will be disengaged. It may 'fail-safe' if disconnected.

1. Black - earth
2. Green/Yellow - power feed from dash fuse 11
3. Grey/Blue - connection to the combined pressure switch
4. K/U - (K?) connection to overheat sensor in top hose
5. K - connection to overheat sensor in top hose
6. SK - ATC switchpack connection.

I can certainly see that 2, 4, 5 and 6 will all test high, although without the sensor connected either 4 or 5 will not.

It may well be that 3 is switched high to prevent it 'floating' at times when it doesn't need to be low.

If your compressor works at all then you must have a _12_ volt feed on the GY wire to the clutch relay, otherwise it couldn't. (5V also wouldn't work)

Pages should be scanned over the next few days and webspace provided they will be available.

Only Rover could make a cooling fan/compressor clutch circuit so complex that it requires 4 A4 pages of schematics, 1 1/2 pages of explanation, connections to 4 control units, 4 inputs and 2 fuseboards ! And that's just the twin fan 2.7!

4.3 On some cars the padded material tends to separate from the plastic moulding that gives the dashboard its shape. This can be repaired using adhesive and clamping in position until set. Procedure click here.

General bodywork is good on all of the 90/91 onwards models (larger bumpers), but can be mixed on earlier cars. Often the doors can rust badly

Open door, one screw under a plastic cap on the hinge end of the door, normally between dash and door when closed. Another screw at the hinge end of the little storage bin. Another at the other end of the storage bin. One in the fluffy carpet/leather? with a little plastic cap on it at the latch end of the door.
Another screw behind a plug on the latch end of the door, near the top but on the edge not the inner face of the door. Prize out courtesy light, one behind it. Disconnect the light. Lever out and disconnect switch pack, trying not to lose clips! Unclip surround behind interior door handle to find two more screws.
Undo these then pull open door handle and remove surround. Find a third screw behind this and undo, also disconnect tweeter wiring. Now lift door trim upwards to unclip it from near the window. Refitting notes: put in the screw at the bottom, latch end last. This will allow you to flex the base of the door frame away form the door and retrieve the screw above it (behind the bung) _when_ it falls down!

Door lock solenoids are prone to failure, often resulting in all but one lock undoing when using the remote locking feature. Some of them can be repaired by replacing a pin inside the lock, but often replacement is easier. They all are interchangeable, with wiring colours being identical on early and later cars.

5.Doors are the same on all models, except Coupes, though internal wiring is different on many models. Rear door wiring tends to be the same on them all.

Rust can form unseen on Mk2 models behind the reversing / rear fog light clusters. This later spreads onto the visible area looking unsightly. Remove the lamps and treat with rust killer / paint in needed.

It seems no repair panels are available for the 800 rear arches. However Rob "widow maker" has this to say --

"Don't know if yours is mk1 or 2, but when the rear arches on my 820 mk1, rotted away, the only place I could get rear quarter panels from was Clarks rover or the like, to the tune of £375+vat,so I did some searching & found that the rear arches for the Montego have the same radius so I brought these from my local body panel shop, cut away all the extra so I was just left with the arch itself then cut this dead centre, then moved both halves to find the best fit which left a couple of mm in the middle spot welded them in to place & skimmed them over to finish the fit then sprayed & you cant tell the diff from the originals, apart from these are a bit deeper, which imho look far better!!"

Sensors 1.2-1.6Kohms should be a good sensor. Sticking a 1.6KOhm resistor on the connector is also handy as a double check that the fault is in fact a dead sensor and not the wiring or something else. Rear one's break very rarely so test the fronts probably quicker to test the sensors than removing all the trim clips to fix the bulb. Check the sensor brackets, two dissimilar metals so known to crack with age. Check the reluctor rings on the hubs are also clean.
If the light starts coming on after a certain distance the distance you drive before the light comes on will probably get less and less, sensor on the way out, heat is slowly killing it.
Note that thing about brake light bulbs is plural not singular, unless they changed the system post 96 both bulbs have to be dead before it'll throw a fault.

There are 2 main areas to look at with the handbrake mechanism on the
caliper.
1. The cable clevis, this is where the handbrake cable attaches to the lever
on the caliper. The clevis should be free to move on the lever, usually its
seized, you need to seperate the clevis from the lever (small clip then
force the pin out), clean it all possible open it up a little, and
re-assemble with plenty of copper grease. If this joint is left seized
eventually the cable snaps where it enters the clevis.

2. The internal cam that operates the piston can seize. To free this you
need to remove the small seal where the handbrake lever (from 1. above)
enters the caliper, basically you then use loads of WD40/Plusgas sprayed
into this area whilst moving the lever back and forward until it starts to
free up and you see the pads moving or the piston moving if you've had the
pads off. Once its free I would pack some grease into the area and replace
the seal (quite tricky to get it back in)

Clutch – Bleeding problem.
Symptoms: Can’t bleed the clutch system
Cause: Weak spring in the slave cylinder. When lifting the clutch pedal, fluid from the reservoir should pass the valve seal and allow more fluid to enter the system, if required. What can actually happen on this vehicle is the piston in the slave cylinder gets sucked up instead.
Solution: Unbolt the slave cylinder, remove the dust cover and insert a thin deep socket or similar object and then clamp to push and keep the piston fully home. Bleed as normal. Refit dust cover and bolt back into position.

820 - 14" wheels, 185/? tyres
820, 825, 827 - 15", most common config 195/65
827 Vitesse - 15", 205/60
827 vitesse - 16" Roversport alloys, 205/55

mk2
820, 827 - 15" wheels, 195/65
827 Sterling - 16"wheels, 195/60
820 Vitesse - 16" wheels, 205/55
820 Vitesse - 17" wheels option, 215/45
825 Diesels - Most seem to have got 16" 205/55 alloys, originally 15" steel.

Honda manual gearbox used on all models except diesels. PG1 series on 2 litre cars and PG2 on V6s. Boxes are interchangeable within same engine range, but a PG1 and PG2 won't swap over because of the mounting hole locations. PG2 is basically the same with minor internal differences to make it stronger. PG2 should last almost 200k miles on a V6 if looked after, some PG1 will last a lot less especially on turbocharger models. Later 96+ turbo cars (sport) have a Torsen LSD in place of the normal differential.
10w40 engine oil in the manual boxes, with the exception of the diesel which uses 10w30, and the Torsen equipped box - that uses gear oil.

New Process Gear (Chrysler USA) T650 Final Drive Ratio 3.50. Engine limited to 4,200 rpm = 124 mph in 5th gear.
10w30 engine oil used in this box.

ZF box used on the 820, check brake bands often. Hondamatic used on 2.5 and 2.7, fully computer driven on the 2.7 version. Honda boxes uses special 'Hondamatic' fluid, and all long term owners will tell you it's worth the premium .. According to the Rover handbook Dexron II (DII) can be used for top ups

Honda dealers sell Hondamatic Part No GGL 251 2.5 ltrs
Rover dealers sell Transmatic ATF Part No GUL2122 2.5 ltrs

Later 2.5 KV6 uses a JATCO JF 403E autobox. For drain and refill or topping up Texaco N402 Trans Fluid. Topping up only Dexron II D can be used.

To Check

GEARBOX FLUID Fluid level check and top-up - COLD LEVEL CHECK
NOTE: The vehicle must not have been driven for at least three hours before the COLD level check is made. Always check fluid level with vehicle standing on level surface.
1. Apply hand brake.
2. Start engine and allow it to warm to normal operating temperature.
3. With the engine idling, move the selector lever slowly through each selector position.
4. Stop in each position long enough for the gear to engage.
5. Return selector to ’P’ position.
6. Remove and wipe dip stick with lint free cloth.
7. Re-insert dipstick and wait several seconds, remove dipstick and fluid level should be within the ’C’ range on the dipstick.
8. Top-up if required, through the dipstick hole with DEXRON II D type automatic transmission fluid. Refit dipstick.
9. After checking fluid level at the COLD level check level as described in, Fluid level check and top-up - Hot level.

Fluid level check and top-up - HOT LEVEL
NOTE: Warm up engine and transmission by driving the vehicle on the road for at least 10 minutes. Do not switch engine off. Always check fluid level with vehicle standing on level surface and transmission at operating temperature.
1. Apply hand brake.
2. With the engine idling, move the selector lever slowly through each selector position.
3. Stop in each position long enough for the gear to engage.
4. Return selector to ’P’ position.
5. Remove and wipe dip stick with lint free cloth.
6. Re-insert dipstick and wait several seconds, remove dipstick and fluid level should be within the ’H’ range on the dipstick.
7. Top-up if required, through the dipstick hole with DEXRON II D type automatic transmission fluid. Refit dipstick.

NOTE: It is recommended that the gearbox fluid pan is removed and cleaned at the
60,000 mile/96,000 km service.

The Coupe shares almost all the same mechanical parts with other Mk2 800s, it is a different story when it come to the bodywork however.
Glass. The windscreen and sunroof are the only glass panels that are the same. All the other windows are unique to the Coupe. Headlamps rear lights etc are the same as the rest of the Mk2 800 range.
Bodywork. Exterior panels. Bonnet, bumpers and spoilers are the same as Mk2 800, just about everything else is different on the Coupe, most noticeable are the large doors, which incidentally have different electric window mechanisms. Front wings which at first sight look the same in fact have the horizontal swage line higher up. Boot lid is different, this has caught a few people out, the ones from the 800 saloon definitely do not fit!.

etc

The normally aspirate 800 series all convert well to run on LPG, but the 827 is a particular gem when running LPG. Several people have been running them for a long time now, and reports are nothing but good. See -

No cambelt tools are sold to cover the Honda V6 engine. Typing correction fluid can be used for marking pulleys.

A PP3 battery (9 Volt) , a diode (1N4001) and a cigar lighter plug can be made into a memory back up unit. Especially useful on 820e and 820Se models.

The Phantom GTR is a great looking mid engined sports car. Based on the Rover 827 - but Ford Duratec V6 will be an option. The car has been shown around for a few years but is at last available and I saw one at Donnington a few weeks ago.

The GTM Libra can take the 825 engine used in the late model 800s and 75
(though I note the suggest the 75 version...).
--

I grew up caravanning (caravan holidays or none), and later in life got my own of course, for the same economics reasons. And before you all start, good caravanners actually make a good, brisk, safe pace, and pull in when tailback gets to more than 6 cars.... Doddery buggers are a scourge on caravanners - cos we cant get past them either....- and they give us a bad reputation. Anyway.... During my time at LandRover, I managed to get hold of a study done at Gaydon, done by BL Technology, testing various caravan/car combos and loading thereof, for instability. After reading that, I was much more careful when towing, especially in caravan set-up. (Also having had some medium snaking once). In my own experience, tower loading weight is VERY important, and if you sense a slight instability (wandering, weaving) at slow speed, you can be sure that a camber change (like hitting the motorway from the 'On' ramp at c50 mph) will set off a good wiggle - which you may not recover from. I towed a trailer (empty twin-axle car trailer) down to Woking in January 2005, and it was mildly unstable at low speed, and getting exciting from 50mph upwards. I told the owner who was with me in his Rangie that something was wrong with the combo - it just shouldn't be that wafty unladen - I suggested tyre pressures - he insisted he had kicked all the trailer tyres and they were all solid (scientific or what?) - but I pulled into a gas station and checked all the tyres, inc. the car tyres - sure enough - one rear on the car was down to 15psi instead of about 34.

But it made the whole combo, unladen, massively unstable. More than you would think - but the pressure was WAY out. ======================================================= ======================================================= I don't have the BLT paper to hand ( it's filed somewhere in a box) - but from memory... The BL Technology Tests ================== The basic objective was to establish what made caravan combos unstable, and how to correct such instability, or survive it. The main findings were: Tyre Pressures =========== Car tyre pressures affect the instability to a medium degree, above about 50mphIf I recall correctly. Unsymmetrical settings are worst. (L to R). Significant car tyre differences affect the stability at much lower speeds. Caravan Tyre pressures had a massive effect on stability, from c30mph upwards If I recall correctly. Variances in van pressures from recommended (for that van), or L/R differences really made a whopping difference, introducing instability at the slightest manoeuvre or road surface unevenness especially camber changes and lane changes. Hitch Loading ========== The BLT study found that excessive hitch weight induced instability, some 10-20mh earlier than normal. If I recall correctly (e.g. whilst doing lane changes at speed in test rig). You MUST observe the hitch loading weight parameters in your car's handbook. Excessive hitch weight destroys the cars suspension characteristics (unsafe), knackers the springs, points your headlights in everybody's eyes (unsafe) and makes the trailer very unstable (unsafe).

ALWAYS take bathroom scales with you, and a plank of wood - to spread the jockey wheel pressure on the scales or you dent them and stuff them. Always check the hitch weight for each journey leg after reloading the van. Van Weight DISTRIBUTION ======================= The BLT finding were most interesting, but not surprising really. Anything that induces Yaw (left/right swinging) or Pitching (nose/tail diving) or Roll (L/R rocking) is going to make life interesting. The tests showed that you MUST load all the heavy stuff over the axle, - so start questioning whether you need it all. I used to pack the awning in the front floor lockers, and bikes etc up the front - oops....

The heaviest items are awning, gas cylinders, bikes, tables and chairs etc - should be in a neat LOW stack on/around the axle - not back and front of the van for convenience of roadside stops and access. Any front or rear load induces Yaw and Pitching, Yaw being the worst - as it builds up it can flip the van/car over with fatal results. Don't underestimate the danger -if you've seen a shredded caravan with a car on it's side by the road you will understand. Pitching doesn't help, esp. with headlights at night, but also on camber changes can induce violent yaw. BLT findings were that load spread mainly at front, or rear, or both, (both is worst) reduces instability threshold by some 20+ mph. If I recall correctly (Good, stable combo was thrashed around at 60+mph no problems) Heavy loads high up can also affect Pitching and Roll - and you don't want to go there. Tyre pressures difference on van affected Roll and then Yaw badly (see earlier section). STABILISERS =========== Stabiliser bar reduced any of the instability thresholds by about 10-20mph If I recall correctly. but don't fit one and think you can be sloppy with pressures or loading. SUMMARY =========== Summary -all combos are unstable at some speed.

Unstable ones can 'go' from about 25mph..... ...you have been warned... Stabiliser bar reduces instability, doesn't cure it (just damps it). ===end of BLT stuff ======== ============================== Weight Types ======== The caravan Club website (go Google it) I believe has a tow chart on it, showing max tow weights for various cars. Max Gross Weight is stamped on your van chassis plate - but difficult to check unless you go to a weighbridge, is the absolute max weight of the loaded van that the axles/tyres etc are designed for. Do not exceed it - if you intend to fill the van with tat (bikes, dinghies, barbecues etc), then better go to a weighbridge once -just so you know). It used to be the law that you had to have stickers in the front left window of the van showing the Van Unladen weight, Van Max Gross Weight, and Car Max Tow Weight. Why? - so coppers could check, and so you were aware of these things. Since they ditched that law (in the 80s?) I guess 70%+ of caravanners are clueless about weights. KERBSIDE WEIGHT of the car (in the Club guide) is purely the weight of the car with full fuel tank and nought else, and is fairly irrelevant. Max Tow Weight of the car is very important - obvious Van Max Gross Weight must not exceed this. I think the Caravan Club guideline is don't exceed 80% of your car's Max Tow Weight capability - but check the site. Speed Limits ========== Maximum 60 mph on motorways and dual carriageways and 50 mph on single carriageways, unless a lower limit is imposed, see

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103Other Observations ================ After seeing the light, and loading more evenly over the axle I encountered no signs of instability, and was determined to not buy a stabiliser, as I was sure correct loading was all that was needed until an adverse camber change gave me a heart stopping tail-waggler... So I then fitted a stabiliser bar... Motto - you don't know what will trigger it at what speed - so stabilise it...it may save that caravan tyre blow-out from flipping the van. I have driven trailer combos at 90+ and they SEEM very stable but I only had a quick blast at that speed in a straight line because I know I cant predict what will happen if I have to swerve or brake hard. RECOVERY =========== Like bike tank slappers, it's very dodgy trying to recover, the BLT guys accelerated out of it sometimes If I recall correctly they found strong acceleration sometimes pulled it straight but didn't always work, and mild acceleration usually had little effect. So you could just end up going faster and more wagging.... Summary ========= Load it right, check tyre pressures, avoid sudden directional changes, use a stabiliser bar. Pull over when you can if queue starts to build behind you and have great fun caravanning.